Shouldn't the non-profit status of the Mormon Church be pulled for this?

Boy, The Journal really had to tongue-twist the title on this.... "Prop. 8 rally in Auburn draws anti-same-sex-marriage crowd "

Could have easily been said "Pro-Marriage rally draws huge crowd"

So the question is, why did the Journal twist the words so much? Why did they feel compelled to state a PRO group as an ANTI group???

As for the question of non-profit status, there is no reason that churches should not be able to voice their opinion on social issues. The fact its political as well is coincidence.

No on 8. Nothing more to say.

Rational_Thinker, I could not have put it better myself. It is quite apparent that significant spin was put on this article, if not the title. It's very clear that even the homosexuals know that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Hence, they wouldn't be so militant about forcing their bizarre lifestyle choice down everyone's throats (no pun intended). When something is normal, there is no need to convince people that it is.

Yes on 8. No more needs be said.

Gus, come on man. We've sat at the same table. I know you're better than this. You're a journalist, not an activist.

If two women or two men want to get married and live a happy life together so let it be .when people are using phrases like” its to protect our children from acts that are immoral” well that’s also teaching children a form of prejudice towards a group of other people .I am married (to a woman) we have children and it is hard enough raising them in a day which drugs and child predators are every where. If people want to make a stand and want to be heard go to Megan’s list and see who is living in your neighborhood. Don’t be so worried about two women or two men holding hands in public. Worry about the real problems the ones that really affect the safety of our children and neighborhoods. I would love to see tougher laws or new laws being voted on to keep child predators off the street .this is just my opinion like everyone else has an opinion. I will vote NO on 8 .I hope all who reads this has a nice day and a great rest of the weekend

Gus, you could have made Rational happy with the title "Bigots & Hate Mongers gather in Auburn".

I'm voting No on h8 myself.

Yes on 8. Why change a good thing?

placerlover, if it is such a good thing why not allow everyone to enjoy it.

hockey1, the same people who are bringing us homosexual marriage were bringing us "pornography is a 1st amendment right" 55 years ago, and "no fault marriage" 45 years ago, and "if it feels good, do it" 40 years ago.

I'm not sure why the Mormon church spends millions on this cause when the divorce rate is 50%. Shouldn't they be focused on that rather than worrying about what might be taken from them? So its pretty sad that 1/2 of the people who are fighting to keep marriage between a man & woman will end up in divorce, and still think gay marriage is wrong...

In my opinion, why ruin a good thing w/ a piece of paper, gay or straight. You'll probably end up in divorce court anyway, gay or straight.

Just for the record, the Mormon church is not spending any money on prop 8. Many Mormons have donated to the yes on 8 campaign but the church has not donated anything. Unfortunately the no on 8 campaign has attempted to distort the issue. Yes on 8 has nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with protecting religious freedom. For example the Catholic Church had to close it's adoption agency in Massachusetts due to lawsuits. They did not want to place children in the home of same sex couples due to their religious principles. They were sued and forced to either close down the adoption agencies or violate their religious beliefs. They closed the adoption agencies. Should a religious leader in any religion be forced to marry same sex couples if it is against his religion to do so? I am sure the courts will end up deciding that in the future if prop 8 fails. Should children be taught about same sex couples in school? They will be if Prop 8 fails. It is CA law. Protect religious freedom and marriage. Yes on 8.

This seems to work for Rational_Thinker so let me give it a try....

Just for the record, the Mormon church is not spending any money on prop 8. Many Mormons have donated to the yes on 8 campaign but the church has not donated anything. Unfortunately the no on 8 campaign has attempted to distort the issue. Yes on 8 has nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with protecting religious freedom. For example the Catholic Church had to close it's adoption agency in Massachusetts due to lawsuits. They did not want to place children in the home of AFRICAN AMERICAN couples due to their religious principles. They were sued and forced to either close down the adoption agencies or violate their religious beliefs. They closed the adoption agencies. Should a religious leader in any religion be forced to marry AFRICAN AMERICAN couples if it is against his religion to do so? I am sure the courts will end up deciding that in the future if prop 8 fails. Should children be taught about AFRICAN AMERICANS in school? They will be if Prop 8 fails. It is CA law. Protect religious freedom and marriage. Yes on 8.

Wow, it does work, thanks Rational_ Thinker! It is not a choice, lifestyle or behavior, it is who they are. Give it a rest and vote no on Prop. 8.

Now can we move on and talk about the problems with Prop. 4?

Watched Bill Maher's Religulous tonight in the theater and was thoroughly entertained and empowered. The audience, a large one, clapped loudly at the end of the film. I recommend it to anyone with an open mind. Funny and powerful. No on Prop. 8!

Jesus never preached against same sex pair bonding, but he did preach against divorce. Why not spend the money and energy fighting against that?

Are you certain the Pro8 folks are not using the Bible to validate their homophobia? When your god hates all the same people you do, you can be pretty certaing you've created a god in your own image.

One more time; who is supposed to be protected? From what?

Might I add that California already voted that "Only Marriage between a Man and a Woman is recognized in the state of California" and 4 judges took it apon themselves to flip it. A point the journalist overlooked. I do not know about anyone else but government is a bit too big for it's pants! Pop. 8 is not a civil rights issue it is a moral issue. Marriage is ordained of God a Loving God who yes, loves everyone straight, gay, green, purple, intelligent, uneducated, alcoholic, drug addicts, do gooder, criminals, we are all his children----------- but, just like we teach our children consequences from actions so must we have consequences........... I agree that yes the divorce rate is horrible our children pay the consequence for this..... We need to get back to the family...Traditional Family it is the foundation of a civil world The consequences of same gender marriage redefines Marriage -Gods definition of Marriage-----Yes, he defined marriage and man thinks he should change that? People need to educate themselves on the big picture. Marriage is being discriminated against! Same gender should be able to have medical, benefits, and take care of one another they will have nothing taken away that they already have but, no, you cannot REDEFINE MARRIAGE it belongs as God defined it-

Between one man and one woman! And no, schools do not need to teach my children this, We will teach our own children- mother and father. No one seems to want to look at the big picture- what is going on in Mass. they have had this law longer. Religions will be considered discriminatory if they wont marry same gender, your children, grand children will not be able to opt. out of progrmas the state mandates. Being politically correct is baloney- be a good person research study and educate yourself. Don't be afraid to look at all the information yes and no, so that you can make an informed choice---this is much bigger than anyone realizes. I attended the rally and it made a great impression on me that everyone was kind both sides of the Prop. This is important for all to remember we are a community, at this time we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion---

it's a beautiful thing! Cherish it because if Prop 8 fails you will not have it any longer--Straight or Gay! And what make you think the government won't flip it again? Please Vote "YES" on 8.

No on 8. Why change a good thing?

"...you cannot REDEFINE MARRIAGE it belongs as God defined it?" Is that what this is all about? Religious leaders are amending the California Constitution to make their God's definition the only correct one?

Thanks for helping us decide.

According to Corinthians 6:9-11 says ,"What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom." Kind of shoots down your line of crap, doesn't it?

You would think the Mormons would have picked up from their Bibles that you shouldn't lie. But if Prop. 8 is going to be a theocratic battle, let's call the Mormons on abusing their faith. Here's what the Mormon scriptures say about their tactics:

* "Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate,' declares the LORD." (Book of Zechariah 8:17)

* "A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will not escape." (Proverbs 19:5)

* "You shall not bear a false report; do not join your hand with a wicked man to be a malicious witness." (Exodus 21:1)

Indeed, their gods seem to have some serious quibbles with how their "Yes On 8" campaign is being run:

"There are six things which the LORD hates, Yea, seven which are an abomination to Him:

Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

So I guess the Mormon gods hate lying in the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign, too. Is lying for Jesus Jehovah better or worse than just plain lying? I'll let theologians answer that question.

I'm sure the Yes on Prop 8 campaign has a few theologians on retainer; maybe even a Mormon expert on marriages.

pilatesrocks - Apparently you have been watching the Yes on 8 TV ads. If you don't have time to actually read Proposition 8 in your sample ballot, you should know fact from fiction:

Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.

Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education, and no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it. Sacramento Superior Court Judge Timothy Frawley has already ruled that this claim by Prop 8 proponents is “false and misleading.”

Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.

Fact: Nothing in Prop 8 would force churches to do anything. In fact, the court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.”

Fiction: A Massachusetts case about a parent’s objection to the school curriculum will happen here.

Fact: Unlike Massachusetts, California gives parents an absolute right to remove their kids and opt-out of teaching on health and family instruction they don’t agree with. The opponents know that California law already covers this and Prop 8 won’t affect it, so they bring up an irrelevant case in Massachusetts.

Fiction: Four Activist Judges in San Francisco…

Fact: Prop 8 is not about courts and judges, it’s about eliminating a fundamental right. Judges didn’t grant the right, the constitution guarantees the right. Proponents of Prop 8 use an outdated and stale argument that judges aren’t supposed to protect rights and freedoms. This campaign is about whether Californians, right now in 2008, are willing to amend the constitution for the sole purpose of eliminating a fundamental right for one small group of minority citizens.

Fiction: People can be sued over personal beliefs.

Fact: California’s laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.

Fiction: Pepperdine University supports the Yes on 8 campaign.

Fact: The university has publicly disassociated itself from Professor Richard Peterson of Pepperdine University, who is featured in the ad, and has asked to not be identified in the Yes on 8 advertisements.

Fiction: Unless Prop 8 passes, parents won’t have the right to object to what their children are taught in school.

Fact: California law clearly gives parents and guardians broad authority to remove their children from any health instruction if it conflicts with their religious beliefs or moral convictions.

Regardless of how you feel about the issue, we should not amend our constitution to eliminate fundamental rights for any Californians.

---

"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?" (President James Madison, 1785)

So........ how much does an eleven year old know about the issues of gay vs. straight and should an eleven year old be supporting or opposing this proposition......... what are her parents thinking??

Skeptic: thank you for presenting facts to counter the lies told by proponents. They must think Californians will believe blindly what they were told--cheers to intelligent responses!

NO on 8!

The only thing that really matters is that God our creator did not intend same sex marriages, (read Genesis for details, please) this is "an abomination" and needs to be forgiven and healed by Him, otherwise these people are unable to spend eternity with Him and in fact will be lost eternally. He gave us loving guidelines to cause our lives to be the best and happiest that they can be. We cause curses to come on ourselves if we choose any thing else (disease, pain, suffering, etc)

It is all an individual choice.......is it worth it?

Yes, it is worth it. You should try it your self to see what I mean.