Finger pointing follows Veterans Day fracas
Veterans for Peace, Legion leaders clash on who threw parade punches
A day after a dustup at Auburn’s Veterans Day parade, the commander of the local American Legion post and president of Veterans For Peace chapter were blaming each other for the fracas. Legion Post No. 79 Commander Earl Montgomery, who served as parade director, said Wednesday that the veterans’ peace group tried to “sneak into” the parade and he advised them that they needed his permission to be there. Then they started a confrontation by refusing to heed parade rules that have been in place for at least two years to keep protest groups out of an event honoring veterans, he said. But Veterans for Peace President Carroll Nast said it was Montgomery who broke parade rules, citing an act of Congress establishing Veterans Day to promote world peace. He said the group was not mounting a protest Tuesday and, instead, wanted to march as other veterans groups were doing. In the ensuing showdown on Lincoln Way, a 70-year-old Veterans for Peace member was punched twice in the head after a tug-of-war over a sign Montgomery wanted to confiscate. Montgomery said he was taunted by the group and had his hat swatted from his head. The Legion commander said he stood in front of the group and they tried to push through him “stopping short of knocking me down.” Eventually the Veterans for Peace contingent marched at the end of the parade and agreed not to carry the group’s sign – with Montgomery in his truck driving behind them. “This group is notorious for stepping in at the last minute and protesting,” Montgomery said. “We’ll be thinking of getting security next year though we don’t like to do that. But they aren’t welcome.” Montgomery said forms that parade participants are supposed to sign when they register state that permission to take part has to go through the parade director. It’s a screening process to keep protest groups out, he said. Nast said Veterans Day event chairman Cynthia Haynes was contacted the night before and she said they could get into the parade by signing in the next day. Haynes said she recalled giving no indication that signing in would mean the group could participate. Nast was on the parade route with five of the organization’s members when the confrontation took place. Nast said that the group hadn’t filed an entry form before parade day because the decision to participate occurred the day before. Nast said he wants to stress that the group was not taking part in the parade as an anti-war protest. Nast cited a 1938 act of Congress establishing Armistice Day as a legal holiday “dedicated to the cause of world peace.” It was renamed Veterans Day in 1954. “If the American Legion can carry their flag and wear their caps, VFP can carry their banner and wear their caps,” Nast said in a statement. The group signed in and was assigned a spot directly behind a contingent of about 20 Vietnam War veterans. One of that group alerted Montgomery. Nast and Montgomery disagree over who threw punches that hit Vietnam War Air Force pilot Kent Williams of Newcastle. Nast said he watched Montgomery strike Williams on the top of the head and has witnesses to prove it. Montgomery said he has 40 witnesses that will say otherwise and that he didn’t throw a punch. Reached Wednesday, Williams said that the top of his head was sore from the punches – probably the first time he’s been slugged in five decades. But he’s not sure who actually did the punching after he knocked Montgomery’s Legion cap off. Montgomery, a 72-year-old Air Force veteran and former Military Police officer, said he grabbed the banner after demanding that either the group put it away or he would take it away. “Somebody swatted my head and then reached down and grabbed my hat and started to run,” Montgomery said. Williams said that Montgomery picked the hat up the ground immediately after it came off and then grabbed him. That was when someone started to punch him, he said. Initially, he said that he thought the punches came from one of the veterans in the Vietnam War group ahead of him. The brouhaha marred what was an otherwise enjoyable day for veterans and their supporters. Haynes estimated that 3,000 people participated. “I admire what he (Montgomery) did to make that wonderful parade work,” Williams said, but added that he believed the Legion official should have abided by the direction Veterans for Peace believe Haynes gave them the night before. Montgomery said there were still plenty of personal, positive highlights in organizing the parade – from Boy Scouts who helped during and after the event to the Auburn Police, who took care of traffic control, to the patience of Downtown Auburn business owners and customers, who put up with road closures. “This parade was set up to honor and recognize all the veterans who served their country,” Montgomery said. “The Veterans for Peace have a right to protest because our Constitution gives them that right. However, they need to take their protest to the proper places and sign up legally.” The Journal’s Gus Thomson can be reached at gust@goldcountrymedia.com.
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Gus: Thanks for takikng the time to try to sort this out and get statements from all the players. One question though: The sign they were wrestling over---What did it actuallly say?
Its clear that Carroll Nast is a liar. He says that they did not decide until the last minute to enter the parade but this is not true. They planned to insert themselves without authorization because they already knew they would not be allowed to protest.
He cannot defend what he did, so he lies.
They were not there to honor vets, they were there to spit on the graves of our veterans by dishonoring them with a protest.
R_T, this time I have to agree with you. Veteran's Day should be a time of remembrance for those that gave their lives as well as a way to thank those who served their country. Most of those that fought in VN were draftees, they didn't volunteer and fought well for a cause they may have believed in or not, either way they have earned our thanks and we should let it go at that on Veterans Day..
The same goes for veterans of all wars. Thank you for your service, I hope your day was not spoiled.
Can someone tell us what the sign said. It seems to me if the sign said something like, "Thank You Vets" there wouldn't have been a fight. But that is not what it said...probably something more like "F War" which is what I see out there a lot. I saw many of those from the protesters at a McCain rally we went to...really classy bunch...it is so cool that these people are now going to run our country. They are just so thoughtful and kind waving their signs with 4-letter words and other vulgar slogans (well...vulgar to us...but we are just prudes, I guess) so that our children can see. Then we all get to have a nice calm, adult discussion about the "issues" (if you define calm and adult as protesters screaming their heads off until they are hoarse telling us that we are all brainwashed).
Get ready for an interesting 4 years people. These people are going to start a civil war.
This is too funny :) Montgomery says “The Veterans for Peace have a right to protest because our Constitution gives them that right. However, they need to take their protest to the proper places and sign up legally.” So, he's really just concerned that they didn't file the proper paperwork !?!?!?! What?!? So, is that why you punched him in the head two times, because he didn't follow the rules?? Yikes! I had a principal like him once - he was fired for child abuse.
Actually pberg, Williams was punched after taking a swing at someone and knocking their hat off.
That is called self-defense.
Note the following quote too... “If the American Legion can carry their flag and wear their caps, VFP can carry their banner and wear their caps,” Nast said in a statement.
So Nasty thinks that his banner is an equivalent to the stars and stripes?
The man is a lunatic. He should have been arrested for disturbing the peace.
I dont understand why VFP would be allowed to participate without a permit, why werent they arrested? Does not the APD attend or do they not have jurisdiction? I think in the future better defined parade rules and enforcement of those rules needs to be in place.
What I mean is it's clear this confrontation was not about filing the right paperwork as Montgomery states in the last quote, anyone can see that. Even if Williams and others were there legally I'm sure this confrontation would have still happened. Clearly Montgomery and others felt themselves and other veterans were being disrespected by the display of the Veterans for Peace. That is the issue.
I think that's an interesting debate. Does war protest belong at a veteran's day parade? I think it depends on the intent of the protesters. If the protesters are out to undermine the days events and be disrespectful then definitely NO. But if the protesters are veterans and simply want to raise awareness for an issue they believe in I would think YES. So, in this case what was the intent of the Veteran's for Peace. It appears through Williams' comments that he genuinely respected the parade and it's attempt to honor veterans. But, we still don't know what the sign said. As others have mentioned, if it said something like "Peace not War" then clearly no problems there. But if it used vulgarities or somehow disrespected the other veterans then their intent to be disrespectful is clear and they should not be allowed to participate. So, I think more info is needed in this case. Thoughts?
How sad and pethetic, a day to honor peace and our veterans is reduced to a school yard scuffle. Why does it always seem the advocates of peace are the most vocal and the most disruptive groups. Have your protests, no problem, it just seems it's always over the top. Protest at a veterans day parade, it's your right but how tacky. If your against the war then go protest at our elected officals offices. My understanding is that the current party with a majority could push a vote and stand on their principals and simply vote to have funding cut off and that would put an end to it. I personally support our troops as I'm sure the peace groups do. I also think that looking back mabe the decision to go to Irac was not the best one --hind sight is 20/20. But we are there we are winning, let the generals do their jobs, force the politions to do theirs, go protest them.
Rational Thinker is a liar. ALL vets sould have the right to march. I'm a vet & I served this country so that we can have freedom of speech. Anyone whotries to shut others up is nothing more than a commie-facist.
The Parade was a nice offering of respect to the men and women of this country that served in our armed forces. Nothing else... We don't need idiots to tell us that war is hell... No shi$! No one ever supports war... that's not what Vetrerans Day is about!
Makes me sick to hear and read that 70 year old men are arguing and punching each other over paperwork! Give me a break, Veterans for Peace caused this confrontation and should be ashamed and condemn how they conducted themselves in a manner that directly counterdicts there organization name!
What a joke, just call yourself "Veterans for non-peace" as your actions led to this confrontation of these senior men. Your displayed is exactly the very reason why war exists and YOU should be ashamed to have the word peace in your groups title.
Our Veterans fought for your rights of free speech but only you give yourself a right to be idiots. You don't fool anybody w/your organization name when you initiate outcomes as demonstrated on November 11th. Gentlemen, you all should be ashamed of your con!
Paperwork my #$*... A moment of silence please!
Mr. Auburn is a joke & should be ashamed of himself. The only con is the idiotic belief that being American is falling in line with any BS the government says or does. To be a real American is to use & express the rights we fought for. Mindlessly obeying isn't American, it's communist!
Birchbricker: You are probably one of the Scumbags from Vets for Peace. Something needs to be done. Nast and his little Anti-American followers should never again be allowed to be there. All they want to do is start trouble. Nast has been a local Anti-American activist attempting to cause problems where ever he goes. He’s just a @#%^ disturber. We can’t continue to let him do these things to our Veterans and community. Everyone knows that this group is not a proud Veterans group; they are a protester’s group that protests everywhere. They can leave the Veterans alone on this one day. If they show up next year, there will be more people just waiting for them. I doubt it will be a pretty sight.
Patrick50, you're an idiot. Threatening to beat people up because they don't think what you think sounds an awful lot Nazi propoganda. Wormy little men, such as yourself, mouth breathing empty slogans is neauseating. Do yourself a favor & actually join the military so they can slap some manners into that shallow mind. I'm not member of that organization but I, as a vet, believe they have the right to be there. I makes me proud to see that folks are using the rights my friends & I faught for. Patrick50, or whatever your real name is, obviously hates America & her vets.
well, I thought there was a good debate in here somewhere but all anyone can do is name-call. No thanks.
I apologize to pberg219. irRational Stinkers deranged diatribe set me off. What if, as a vet, someone had a permit & then wore a t-shirt with a peace sign on it? Let's say a vet had seen many friends die sensless, tragic deaths & decided to speak out against unethical wars. Every vet is proud to serve his country & veterans have the right to express our divers opinions. Especially on Veterans Day. It's embarassing that the parade came to blows.
Some of you are acting like fools, take a deep breath before you post. Threats of violence...civil war... Sheesh. Calm down. And what did the sign say? Considering it was the cause of fisticuffs I think it should be reported, though it doesn't necessarily matter in the reality of it all.
P.S. If promises of violence are being made for next year, then I'd say a little parade in Auburn is too much for "grown ups" in this town to handle, and it would be a darn shame, but perhaps it just shouldn't happen next year if that is the plan. That's called unintended results, and it's going to be a reality if you don't knock it off.
Veterans for Peace: next year see if you can get your own parade permit for same day, same location, 50 feet behind the other guys. And keep your hands to yourselves. Unless someone tries to steal your stuff, as apparently happened.
Earl Montgomery: when you try to confiscate other people's property, sign or otherwise, as you claim you did...you should be glad it's only your hat that got smacked. And Earl, I refer you to the words of the Veterans Day Proclamation by President Eisenhower, Nov 11, 1954 (CAPS mine):
"Now, Therefore, I, Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States of America, do hereby call upon all of our citizens to observe Thursday, November 11, 1954, as Veterans Day. On that day let us solemnly remember the sacrifices of all those who fought so valiantly, on the seas, in the air, and on foreign shores, to preserve our heritage of freedom, and LET US RECONSECRATE OURSELVES TO THE TASK OF PROMOTING AN ENDURING PEACE so that their efforts shall not have been in vain.
...
In order to insure proper and widespread observance of this anniversary, ALL VETERANS, ALL VETERANS' ORGANIZATIONS, and the entire citizenry will wish to join hands in the common purpose."
Ike, the handholding is a little much to expect, but your spirit was right.
But America Legion, VFW, etc: It's not your holiday, it's not your streets, and you don't speak for all vets, especially this one.
ok, so we know birchbricker is a vet for surrender
also he is one of the few liberal posters here who log in under multiple names
he not only uses the same talking points as above, but also the same derivations of other posters names in a derogatory way
he is not nice, he is not truthful, his is a liberal
and Gus, I have to ask
where is the mention of Charlie Brown in this ?
isn't he a veteran ?
I thought we had to be reminded of his service and bravery at every opportunuty ?
or was he too busy hanging a soldier in effogy to be bothered ?
Kittyv: yeah, you'd love to have the parade shut down next year, eh ?
you were likely one of the VFP agitators
and that is likely their ultimate goal in disrupting the parade
to eliminate it
just like their main goal is elimination of the United States
too bad you got caught
There is no reason not to have a parade. We should have one where everyone HONORS our veterans and if they have a political point to make, do it another time.
This is CODE PINK tactics much like holding up signs at the funerals of our soldiers calling them "accomplices to murder" and the like.
The VFP are not even veterans. Sure, there are some there, but not all of them. In addition, I would bet a dollar to a doughnut hole that most of them did not serve honorably, but rather, were the kind of druggie, drinking, deadbeats that many of us in the military remember having to deal with.
Think about it... if all veterans were saints, then the military would have no need for brigs.
I don't think people should be threatening violence against these idiots, but if they showed up when I was there, which I will likely be next year just in case, I would assert a citizens arrest upon them for disturbing the peace.
Common Sense? Really? I can understand your slandering of me... but the other people? I do NOT post under any other name than my own. I don't know where you get off saying that. I believe in what I say & so I'm not afraid to use MY real name. In the heat of an argument, name calling is one thing; slander is another.
Birchbricker: You are an idiot, not to mention illiterate. You only open your big mouth because you’re behind a little computer screen. After what these great Vets did for our country, I feel fine about protecting them next year, and I will. Please don’t give us this @#$% about you being a Vet. Everyone who posts here says they’re a vet. I don’t believe them, especially a scum like you Birchbricker. KittyV: The parade won’t be cancelled, but the Anti-Americans, VFP will be banned. THEY ARE NOT VETERANS! They are against our Veterans. I know that fits right in with the thinking of you Liberals. We should not have to be going through this right now. If the guys that call themselves Veterans for Peace (keep in mind most of them are not Veterans) want a day to be heard, they can leave our heroes alone and protest on another day. They should be able to at least show that much respect. They can’t because they have a hatred for our Veterans and our country. My hat is off to you Mr. Montgomery. Thanks for standing up for our Veterans.
What did the sign say?
Patrick,
Do you think it is appropriate to assault a veteran on veterans day?
"Mindlessly obeying isn't American, it's communist! "- BirchBricker
Obviously you weren't much of a soldier if you think like that. I personally cant stand VFP. You know very well that they were there to protest. A protesting organization doesnt go to an event that honors people who fought in wars for this country, because thats what the group is against. Use some common sense. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that.
Amen Brothers, nice points Nash Grumble, love the quoter! I think BB exposed his worth...
Regardless, it was a nice event and I appreciate Auburn for having such a nice and honorable community celebration. Let's fix and test out the microphone at the celebration next year. Otherwise, good job by all!
Thanks, Joszef.
P.S. Patrick- Birch Bricker is my real name. Look me up sometime. WHO'S hiding?
I think it was the most exciting parade in the history of Auburn.
I spent 10 years in the U.S. Navy. I 1st want to thank all of the other veterans for their service and sacrifice. I swore to uphold the Constitution and to defend the U.S. from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. The domestic enemies, in my eyes, are those that trample on the very rights I swore to protect. When we start denying basic rights of protest, free speech, etc. then I ask myself, why did I sacrifice?
I don't have to like something, agree with it's point of view or even its timing...but don't tell me I gave 20% of my life (to this point, and willingly) for people to have the right to disagree with me and say so.
A Veterans Day Parade should be for ALL VETERANS. If they are veterans, let them march. If their banner says "Veterans for Peace" let them carry it.
Wasn't the World War the war to end all wars? Hence, to bring on Peace? Do we maintain a military just to fight or isn't part of it a deterrent to prevent more fighting...Peace?
Call me what you want, say what you will. I did it for your rights too.
"...for people to have..." should read "...for people NOT to have..."
As a Vietnam Veteran who is a member of Veterans For Peace as well as a Life Member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, I want to express my disgust and outrage at the behavior of the American Legion in denying access to the parade by the VFP group, and particularly for escalating that denial to violence and theft.
Back in the 1970s, when I marched in Boston with Vietnam Veterans Against the War, we experienced this kind of narrow-minded bigotry! I remember having to march behind the police horses, dodging you know what all the way, because some yokel who wasn't even a war veteran decided he had the right to decide that his freedom of assembly trumped mine.
I thought those days were long gone. But apparently they are alive and well in Placer County.
I hope that next year, cooler heads will prevail, and that VFP will apply (and be granted, thank you) clearance to march wthout interruption. Veterans come in all shapes and sizes, and not all of us are represented by the VFW -- and certainly not by the American Legion.
Iraqnroll: You're right, I wasn't much of a soldier; I was a sailor. Sailor of the Year 1995 on CVN-72. I agree with the above statement "I hope that next year, cooler heads prevail". I shouldn't have done any name calling earlier, I was just pissed. All vets, not just the VFW, the right to be there. What if a vet wore a "US out of Iraq shirt"? Would his veteran status be nullified?
I think that if we knew what the sign said we would be better informed and could make a better judgement of what transpired.. However, nobody seems to want to provide that information.
MrAuburn - A moment of silence sounds like a good idea. You go first.
Rational_Thinker - Carrol Nast is a liar. Really? Do we have your word on that?
(snicker, chortle, guffaw, giggle, titter)
Patrick50 - Ouch!
Idiot? Illiterate? Big mouth? Scum? Anti-American? Slow down. Take it easy.
They're all veterans - - just with different opinions. You have to respect that. Nobody is dissing any veteran. It's political policies that are controversial, not troops. And thanks to veterans, we are able to say things like that, no matter who disagrees with us. Isn't this a great country?
Sure would be a boring place if we all believed the same.